night. thanks for your comments. keep them coming. go to loudobbs.com. find our social networking links and take a look at the trail trailer for "occupy unmasked" on loudobbs.com. good night from new york. neil: there is no elegant way to say it. we are puking and belching food stamps and benefits, good money after bad. sorry to be so graphic, but it has doubled under this president and all because of something signed off on by this president. welcome, everyone, i am neil cavuto. 3.9 million americans on food stamps, that is of the year 2010, god knows how many now. but we do know that it was 1.9 million americans in 2008,
and apparently, a lot of it goes back to the president's economic stimulus legislation when he quietly suspended a rule, encouraging otherwise healthy adults to work by limiting the amount of time that they could receive food stamps. the white house says it was advocating for a number of people who wanted more flexibility in how they dispense benefits. but the immediate result of this. more americans than ever on food stamps. more americans than ever feeding off the drop. this is a lot more about mitt romney sounding heartless. >> they believe that they are entitled to health care and food and housing and you name it. >> think about that and think about how eric cantor, telling
me moments ago, his whole policy is what is clueless. >> what we are talking about his able-bodied individuals without dependents who would otherwise be subject to this. there was over 100 some% increase. this is the point. nobody wants to take away these benefits and for people in need. when we want to make sure they get back to work. neil: maybe we ought to address the fact that we are a title meant society. who knows that better than a man who warned of this. thomas, it's great to have you. >> it's good to be here be one i always think that they have it
backwards. if that were all getting our noise -- be a disputable fact, 47% pay no income taxes. more than ever we are seeing people on the government go. >> contrary to what some think, when the election comes, these are people who are very likely to vote for him. >> and he did she did so because we hadn't gotten out of a depression and a lot of people buy them on the public money. the argument that mitt romney was raising was that that is what happens with an entitlement society. those who were getting the entitlements remember the guy providing them. but the boot stamping today is a
startling development. i do want you to react to some, that zach welch made on fox news. >> you think when voters go to the polls, that there is an inflection that says were tired of this? >> we want to live in a vibrant, growing economy. where children -- where we have safety nets. safety nets that are paid for from taxes that are created for jobs. neil: when you think about? >> at what point does the safety net become the hammock? i'm afraid that's where we are. i was shocked to learn that within the past year, the big government sends people into supermarkets to tell shoppers that there is food stamps available. clearly, this administration understands that that is
politically worth that. neil: how did we get to 47%, not paying any income taxes. i know those that are generally for it, you know, but, it was in the 20s and this thing keeps going up and up. the only way to get more money for the government is to hike taxes on the rich. but it doesn't look good. >> first of all, raising the tax rate on the bridge in no way translates into acquiring more government revenue. all kinds of statistics, not only from this country but from other countries, iceland and india come to mind, when the state of maryland raises a high tax on millionaires, maryland collected less tax revenue at the high tax rate than it had at the lower tax rate.
neil: why do we do this? we live in a world where some, not all, countries like france are having rates of 75%. a number of premier tos in the country have left. so in following this being that you mention, it does seem to be the way, not of the entire world, but what is happening? >> it is the way of the world that is having riots because they can't sustain the welfare state. we are not at that point yet. but i think that we can get there in one more term of obama. neil: what should mitt romney be advocating. the rap against him is that he has a good intellectual argument that he doesn't have the passion to present. or he is just muddying up the message. jack welch said go right up there and how great it is. wrap your arms around it and sell it. would you say?
>> i think it is one thing to explain things. that ordinary people can easily understand. i don't think he needs to rant and carry on. i don't remember ronald reagan ranting. i think he just went out there and make the case. and he won two landslide elections. so you don't want romney or anyone else to do something or be something that they are not. you know, who is this doctor that the democrats have themselves doing work that she's not that kind of person. i think for him to pretend to be something he's not will only hurt him. but he does need to explain explicitly exactly what it is and why he believes what he does. and i think that is sufficient. we are not looking for a buddy in chief in the white house. neil: but we are also looking for someone who can outline where we are going to be, right? others have talked about the
country in 201400 and 2016 and in 2020. the direction is going to look better under me than my opponent. what does he do for that? >> he simply explains himself from which most republicans don't do. he seems to be doing a little bit of that now and he makes a few slip ups. i did study how the media was covering the 1980 presidential race. the same of dismissive comments made today. jimmy carter was a much less popular president. it could explain why those two were virtually even in the polls, almost up to election day
itself. >> they still hate us around the world no matter who is our president, don't they? not part of the world, i think you could be mother mother theresa and they would love you, right? >> it's not a question of whether they love you or not. it's whether they respect you. i'm sure the iranians did not love ronald reagan. the fact is that they made it their business to get the hostages lose before the oval office was taken over by reagan. neil: so they don't care for the
poor and starving, and i don't feel that conservatives are gun shy. they are afraid of who they want to be and they are afraid of their own dna? i don't think i'm imagining that. i'm always nervous. when you can? >> undoubtably, i think that's one of the reasons that they don't come out and say what they want to say. i don't think there's anything callous about wanting able-bodied men to work. what i think is truly callous is having a system and a set of policies that doesn't help the poor. i came across an old copy of "the new york times" which had a front page headline that the black-white income difference had narrowed slightly during the 1980s. that is the regular administration. more recently, the black-white income distance has widened greatly under barack obama. yet, reagan is never regarded as
being someone for the poor or black. and obama is. the real question is not how does he talk and how does he come across. the question is what do his policies do to people? and i think for example, minimum wage -- minimum wages have done enormous damage to young blacks. you go back to the 1950s -- the mid-1940s -- the unemployment rate among black teenagers was a fraction of what it is then. it was a fraction in 1949, which was a recession year, what it has been in even the most prosperous years since then. the difference was in 1949, the minimum wage law had not been upgraded since 1938. for all practical purposes, it had been destroyed by inflation. when she started reinstating minimum wage, then you begin to get to 20, 30, 40% unemployment rate among black teenagers.
neil: the debates were crucial for ronald reagan. his son gave before, not the immediate election, but the prior sunday to it -- finally, let's say the president is reelected. big government, big government continues. there are a lot of conservatives you might as well pack it up, capitalism as we know it is gone, entitlement society will be etched in stone, democrats will have a lock on power because so many will be indebted to them. do you agree with that? >> no, these can be rolled back.
nobody is ronald reagan. we are waiting for ronald reagan, it might be another 50 or so years. neil: is barack obama jimmy carter? >> i think barack obama is worse than jimmy carter. neil: do you? >> yes. carter had many foolish policies internationally as well as domestically. i think obama has outdone him in most respects. neil: is always good seeing you, thank you very much. >> thank you. neil: washington dc throwing money out in haste and it's leading to more waste. david walker on how washington is spending billions. to rescue folks who don't even know he'd rescued. and democrats can't wait to respond to eric cantor.
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neil: a new report that the government may have given away more than a billion dollars accidentally. it turns out that many of the people who got the money didn't even qualify for. david walker says with their debt burden topping $70 trillion, we can't afford this. but we keep doing stuff like this. i tell you, if i had a dime for every time that i reported a story like this, i would be rich. >> the government does a very terrible job. there's not proper oversight. the government is great at spending our money and adding on
at the same time, we have to get those they're well-off. we have to do both of those things to improve the system and. we have to keep in mind that income taxes fun fund all the constitutional role of the federal government. homeland security, the federal judicial system. on and on. you can't have 46% of your population getting a free ride. that is insanity. neil: but it does building a base for the guy or the party
that is providing it, right? when fdr was running for reelection, by that point, who he had such a government beholden to indebted voters that if you count on them, they more than turn through the election. the real key is, who is going to be able to convince the american people in the debate that they have the better plan to improve economic growth to generate jobs and put the financial house in order? crinkly, we are not getting enough substantive solutions from either candidate. if we can deliver on the outcome of the 46 or 47% will go down.
meanwhile, mortgage rates have never been lower. i know you've heard this before, but they have never been lower. the average for 30 year fixed rate is 3.5%. my goodness. anyway, that is then and this is now. five years ago the rate was 6.5%. mortgage rates are down but salaries are barely going up. the average day, the average pay raise said to be less than 3% next year. >> folks living near capitol hill, did you see this?
>> the wwe champion. [inaudible] neil: expanding bureaucracy, the municipalities from the cities, the federal government does not have to balance the budget. the lobbyists to move into making that breaks for taxes so they can get rates for their business, right now even. neil: government is instead an
employer. you see it continuing that way. whew. the federal government does whatever they want. if you guys more than what they deserve and making them whether they have a job for them or not. neil: i was thinking, one thing that i love about you in all seriousness, is that a lot of people -- it turns out that some have a lot more than others because they have a better track record. i think the problem with mitt romney is in his campaign, they are nervous about looking bad and about looking on defending and being offensive but they miss the elevator. then they say forget about those
47% stuff. focus on 7% and they don't take offense on it. what would you tell him? >> i would say take a stand and stay with it. he said how do you deal with crooks? he didn't attack jimmy carter what they were doing. when he says something, he backtracks. he is scared of affecting anybody. if romney would just take a stand, this election would win. instead it is obama's to lose. neil: jack welch was with me earlier. he was saying that the argument he made in the selection is and whom is defending whom but where
this country goes. mentioning your opponent -- do you know we've gone? it's going to be more about that. you might like more of that. or this could be something for something much grander. the reagan aspect. >> yeah, and romney is a coward who refuses to come up there and say, my father gave me money and i gave it away. i make every dime i thought. that's what the american dream is. instead of breaking up his tax returns, which he should have done you should say i have had money and make it legally, i put it in the caymans and bermuda and other places. but it's legal. and if our president, if i had to stop, i would stop that. the one that's very bold. easy for you to say yes, i had money on that. >> the problem is, they don't know about it but that's worse. they are expecting that anyway. your point is taken about
getting in your face about this. you might have it backwards in this debate. just as we do about the president and someone said about redistribution, who cares what they said in 1998. who cares what came up at a fund-raising meeting in may. let's go to the here and now. it all seems to be peripheral nonsense. >> it is peripheral nonsense. romney should come out with a plan that has granularity to it. he is obviously a very smart guy and has done well for smart business. as this paul ryan. they refuse to put anything out, so it can be picked apart. the president is doing the same thing. problem is yes then at the last three years. romney should highlight that by putting out his plan with granularity and clarity as to exactly what is going to do. that is going to offend some people need but we need to put it out there and stand by it. >> america doesn't care if they disagree with with you. they care if you don't take a stand. that is the problem that mitt
romney is having with the average person out there. neil: all of the young people ended up voting for ronald reagan in 1980. most didn't agree with them but they admire the fact that he took a stand. he didn't waver. it's interesting. >> that's right. it was the only demo the president obama won the last time. and we see that that is a huge disenfranchised vote right now. that is why they refuse to alienate anybody. and does not take a stand. i think america doesn't mind a person that takes a stand as long as he does it with integrity. i think that romney has that integrity. neil: exactly. >> i heard when he was governor -- [talking over each other] neil: the numbers and more numbers -- >> right, that should be enough for romney. neil: we will see. great to see you. in the meantime, it's enough to make me upset.
financial guys who haven't made and are not lending. even exxon mobil by comparison seems better. because of any of these microphone hogging iq point blank politicians had taken the time to notice, our financial kingpins aren't looking to do anything. they have been royally laying off folks for years now. bank of america has just been speeding up the process. that is why i didn't hear them lamenting the layoffs today. they were coming from gm or horizon or any other satellite. 16,000 people out and so they
go. washington goes on. without a word from chuck. sometimes it can be deafening area sometimes, something else. remember what i told you about the number of kids on food stamps? how a double? i wonder if they are the same guys who are going to have to pay that health care health care law. and if they can't afford it, i wonder who has to pay for it. who do you think
because lawmakers are ready to pack up and leave. mitch mcconnell not skipping a beat. blaming democrats for all of us. >> never before has a senate and the president done so little to confront challenges so great. neil: and with regulations piling up, so are the costs going up and up. a new report showing that regulation costing taxpayers and businesses. with a health care law kicking in, expect that to grow. dear member this? [applause] >> thank you everybody, thank you. supreme court ruled that the individual mandate was constitutional. neil: they are now going to
penalize employers who don't provide the coverage. we have scott pruett here with us. thank you for coming. >> what is the focus of this? >> speaking of regulatory action, the employer mandate penalty would issue state health care exchange or a federal health care exchange. the problem with that ruling is it is in clear violation of informal care act. the state of oklahoma has not taken action to adopt a health care exchange. so we are being deprived of the benefit in our state of employers not having to pay the employer mandate tax or a penalty. as a result of that rule with the irs. the lawsuit is about that. this is about implementation this is addressing implementation of the law.
and the agencies of the federal government, be it hhs or irs and other agencies involved, they must do so consistently. i believe that the irs has exceeded their authority and we are seeking to challenge challenge that an oklahoma. neil: you have moved beyond what the supreme court has to settle on beyond what you can mandate health care coverage and now we learn that 6 million americans will have to pay the penalty. have you had much interest from other attorney general's? >> one as the is the medicare expansion. the other is the exchange.
the federal government has exceeded its authority by adopting the medicaid expansion. that was a seven to number to vote. that is in violation of the epa we are seeking to make sure regulations can't lead to trumping the statute were employers have to pay a 3000-dollar per employee tax or. >> that is an economic benefit
>> at president obama is reelected, taxes are going up. if mitt romney is elected, taxes will not go up. that is a big part of the logjam here of a very different view of how you approached the question of the fiscal cliff. especially during a talk tough economic time. focusing on growth in getting people back to work.
neil: i don't think the house majority leader it is saying that we have to grow our way out of this mess. and that mitt romney is the guy to do that. congressman, good to have you back. >> thank you, neil. neil: that is what this whole debate is about. i just think it is about the role of government. war more government are less government. when you think? >> i would like to have that conversation, but it seems as though we are going back to the 80s. ronald reagan and the welfare, more people receiving food stamps. it is kind of one of those lagging economic indicators. it increased by $11 million under george bush.
it also increased under his father's administration. there was silence. it increased according to the demand. why are we talking about this? neil: i'm not here to get into the particulars of that, but that in so many are taking advantage of so many benefits and programs of the government -- bat and 47% -- rightly they did it, they pay taxes, but there is something wrong with a country where we have gotten to the point where 47% are paying any income tax. >> let me just say that originally they told me to come and talk about food stamps. i'm not on them. i checked with them back at home and we are not on them. just wanted make sure. i'm not an expert on this. neil: all right, continue. >> let me just make this point. look, my mom is a social
security check. she is on medicare. she paid into a system. that is what is supposed to be there. there are lots of kids on the program. you know how i got to college? i used to be eog program. neil: but that figure doesn't bother you? >> when it came to it, we pay for. i got a college education because i was doing better. neil: i understand. 47% are not paying income taxes. we could talk about what makes of that number. to me, it seems weird that have are paying into the system. with the number itself, you know how much government costs and you know you're not going to be
able to go after rich folks, right? >> let me put it this way, i turn on the tv set in their people complaining that the unemployment is at historic highs. that the economy is bad and people are hungry. that is when you use more government services. as the economy improves, you will see less of it. [talking over each other] [talking over each other] neil: i love you, but he told you told me last night that the economy was improving. the dependency on government should be going down. but it did then. >> it lacks more than my diet resolve. last time i saw you, we arrested dmz where we gave an excellent speech. neil: in the end, do you think this will decide government is very bad?
i think that's what it comes down to her. the role of government. >> i'm going to give you a little perspective. given the fact that i'm traveling to colorado, nevada, and florida, not for the obama campaign has asked we put most of my energy, i have a funny feeling that at least on our side, it is going through those states and one of the principal arguments is going to be who is there on immigration policy. let me just say that mitt romney spent a whole hour yesterday at a fellow television station, univision, talking about this policy. >> that's going to be the big issue. >> if it were to be a criticalso issue. neil: congressmen, always good to see her. you. when we come back, are we a nation ofel ghosts om independens
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